Nutrtion, minerals, teeth and confusion

earthymama · #1 02-28-2006, 10:23 AM

I hope this is the right forum to post this to.

I have been vegan for about 7 years, and I have a 2 year old son (also vegan). My son has advanced tooth decay, from about the time he was 1 year old. I have done lots of reserach on the web, and almost every single forum that I read on the topic of early childhood tooth decay, everyone says that the only way to reverse and stop decay (via nutrition) is through the Weston Price method (lots of animal products, lots of cod liver oil, raw milk, raw butter, etc) and through the Nourishig Traditions cookbook. I have a hard time believing that those are truly healthy diets based on all that I know about meat and dairy, though. IT just doesn't make sense to me. But, I feel like the only person who questions it. I understnad that lots of Vit A and D help mineral absorbtion, but why do I need to feed my healthy son lots of animal products in order for his teeth to be healthy??? I just don't buy it.

Can anyone direct me to information on healing teeth (or bones, for that matter) on a plant based diet? I don't even know where to start...which mineral supplement I shouls give him, etc.

Thanks so much for your help.

Christa · #2 02-28-2006, 01:04 PM

I've heard those claims, too. The only person with whom I chatted extensively online who had this issue (tooth decay in a child) and attributed it to their vegan diet made some other changes as well as dietary changes. She did switch to the WAPF/NT diet and believes that made the difference, but she also began to use floride rinses and made a number of other dental hygiene changes.

We've never dealt with this issue much in our kids, so I don't have any personal experience here. However, tooth decay is caused by bacteria. Once your mouth is "colonized" with bacteria, it's there for good. Pretty much all adults and older children have the bacteria that causes decay present in their mouths, which is why most people have some fillings. At this point, your plan is going to be to neutralize the acids caused by the bacteria and minimize plaque.

Personally, and I admit that not everyone here will agree with me, I'd be inclined to get any decay that he has treated -- fillings, or whatever needs to be done b/c it is just going to keep eating away at his teeth once it has begun to form a cavity. Then, I'd start a program of rigid dental hygiene (not to imply that you have been lax b/c this can happen even if you've been brushing regularly).

I'd minimize dried fruits and anything that will stick to his teeth, have him swish water around in his mouth everytime after eating, follow night time brushing with a floride rinse (use one made for kids and make sure he doesn't swallow it) or put some of the rinse on a Q-tip and rub it on his teeth before bed, and floss regularly if his teeth are close together. It does seem that, once you get the progress stopped, you may be able to turn things around.

Hopefully someone else here will have some personal experience or some links for you. Good luck.

earthymama · #3 02-28-2006, 01:13 PM

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, we don't give him ANY dried fruits or anything sticky, and never have. Juice is a VERY rare treat, it is mainly just water and breastmilk.

We don't do fluoride, and while I was considering doing a topical treatment of it at the dentists, after investigating it in more depth (esp reading "The Fluoride Deception"), I am dead-set against it.

I understand about the bacteria, and to combat that we use a xylitol tooth gel 3 times a day on his teeth. I wish I had found out about it when I first spotted the decay, as I think it would have helped a lot more in the early stages.

I do know that my health has never been better since becoming a vegan. I just truly cannot see how eating large amounts or animals products is better for you, I don't buy it. I do think that I need to possibly make sure that he is getting enough sun exposure for Vit. D, which can be iffy in cloudy and grey Oregon at this time of year. He LOVES carrots and sweet potatoes, so I think he gets enough beta carotene (for vit A).

Thanks for your response.

Christa · #4 03-01-2006, 07:36 AM

I can understand your concern with fluoride and it is good that you are using xylitol. I've heard some people saying that they've had success with that.

I'm kind of in the grey in btwn area on many topics like vaccinations, fluoride, etc. I've been vegan for 17 years and really tend toward 'alternative' medicines -- most doctors find me to be a bit of a pain b/c I don't follow their advice and find some alternative way to treat everything. However, I also work at a hospital in health education and have a grad degree in that field, so I see both sides of the coin.

In regard to fluoride, I am totally with you on not taking it internally. There was a big debate in our town a bit back about ending water fluoridation. I wish that we had b/c I just don't see the proof that ingesting fluoride improves anyone's dental health and there are some real concerns there. I am pretty convinced that it has a beneficial effect topically, though.

However, it isn't likely to be the only means of topically treating tooth decay. I hope that the xylitol does the job for your little guy.

malmi · #5 03-01-2006, 11:31 AM

Do you send your son to bed with a bottle? Several of the toddlers I work with are sent to bed with bottles and they've actually had their teeth pulled. The sugars from the drink eat away at their teeth all night while they sleep.

earthymama · #6 03-01-2006, 11:46 AM

We have never used a bottle, he has always been brestfed, and he does still breastfeed in the day and at night. However there has been considerable research that shows that breastfeeding at night is NOT a cause of caries.

vegma · #7 03-02-2006, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by earthymama
We have never used a bottle, he has always been brestfed, and he does still breastfeed in the day and at night. However there has been considerable research that shows that breastfeeding at night is NOT a cause of caries.

Right on, mama!

Christa · #8 03-02-2006, 07:01 AM

We nursed all night for a long time, too

.

malmi · #9 03-02-2006, 07:18 AM

I never said nursing at night was the culprit. If the child sleeps with a bottle, then it would likely be a cause.

Christa · #10 03-02-2006, 07:22 AM

Don't worry -- I understood that you were not blaming night nursing. I was just chiming in with vegma to show support!

earthymama · #11 03-02-2006, 07:30 AM

sorrym i didn't mean to come off defensive, i just hear of so many people who think night nursing is to blame (including most dentists).

thanks for the support.

malmi · #12 03-02-2006, 08:30 AM

Trust me, I'm all for nursing!

The internet is an easy way to lead to miscommunication, though. I'm trying to get used to the flow of this forum.

PikkuMyy · #13 03-11-2006, 08:52 PM

I just wanted to chime in about the flouride.

My husband and I are as crunchy as they come. We eat only organic vegan food, use all natural body care and home care products, etc. You name it. I even use cloth toilet paper for pee.

My husband worked for a hazardous chemical company for many years doing the chemistry, hazardous material testing, etc. and he has also done a lot of research into heavy metals, etc. He knows a lot about the various political implications of additives, etc. related to elements. He does agree that the "flouridate the water" thing is just a way of getting rid of the flouride cheaply and that flouride does nothing for adults. However, he does believe that it does prevent tooth decay for children when used topically. So while we filter our tap water and use non-flouridated toothpaste for ourselves, we'll be using flouride toothpaste for our children to be.

Just my two cents.