The Vegan View

Well first let me give you some background information about myself. I am 17 years of age, and currently in the process of making the switch being a vegan. During the entire process of my switch, I have been using honey, simply because I love it, and it adds a grand flavor and an extra bit of variety to my diet. It is not an industrial honey made by some farmer who does not care about the enviroment and his impact on it, but it is made by a family friend. I have personally been with him when he collects honey, and he takes special care not to hurt the bees, and I honestly believe that I hurt more insects daily than he does in a month of his beekeeping. So in saying this I wish to know if i can still consider myself a vegan if I continue to consume this honey?

VegFamily readers reply:

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TSellar:
I say eat what you want, no one is classifying you but you - there is no vegan police. do what you can and do what feels right otherwise you'll probably won't stick to it as easily. Me and my husband eat honey... also bake with regular old icing sugar for cakes etc.. do what you can it's better than nothing :)

Rebekah::
Hello! I'm Rebekah, 15, and I'm vegan. I often run into this topic at school as opposed to using dread gel instead of beeswax for my dreads. I didn't have enough information to defend my argument for boycotting the use of bee products until today. I found this informational website explaining much of a factory bees life.http://ag.arizona.edu/pubs/insects/ahb/inf3.html

Susan:
Being vegan is not about being dogmatic and following "rules." Technically, you would be a strict vegetarian - eating no animals, dairy or eggs, but honey technically is from an animal so it is not vegan. The "vegan" police are not going to come after you though when you use honey. Question though - have you tried agave which has a really nice flavor and is vegan?

J:
I absolutely think you can still be a vegan while consuming that type of honey. The bees are not being forced to make it and are not being hurt to harvest it. Honey is their by-product, you aren't taking anything from them.

Mark:
You will NEVER be a vegan, so welcome to your permanent life as a VEGETARIAN. Vegans eat or use NOTHING coming from or made from animals. Oh and by the way, that's very nice that your friend doesn't harm the bees, buy the way YOU ARE STEALING FOOD FROM THE BABY BEES. Why do you think bees make honey, because it looks pretty. They make honey FOR THEIR BABIES.Would you like it if someone came and and took your wife's breast milk and fed it to a bee or baby cow? I didn't think so. When you eat honey, it's the same as drinking animal milk. Have a nice day you vegetarian.

Reggie:
First off I'd like to say that at 17 you are AWESOME at being conscious. None of us (even the militant vegans such as myself) are perfect vegans. We drive cars (gas/petrol and tires) we read books with glue we wear shoes that are rubber or polyurethane, we eat (hopefully) organic produce which is mostly using blood and bone to fertilize. We have to do our best really and not beat ourselves up for not being perfect.

Let's face it, if we were perfect we wouldn't be here. Veganism is a choice about caring for the animals and giving them a voice. I'm not saying have a steak b/c your grandmother offers it and it's already there. But you are making extremely wise and caring choices. Something to consider, what does your friend do with the bees? Most times they burn the hive or kill off 'extra' queens. That is a concern. Have you tried agave nectar? Brown rice syrup? They are wonderful alternatives. The USDA allows a certain amount of bug remains in every bit of food, chocolate is permitted the highest amount of bug remains of all foods so if you eat chocolate you eat bugs. Well any food really but more bugs with chocolate. Therefore I don't eat chocolate. But we all have to live with our own decisions. Keep up your work for the animals and optimum health and be proud of yourself for your dedication. In Peace, Reggie

Nancy:
Definition of Vegan by Donald Watson: [T]he word "veganism" denotes a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude ? as far as is possible and practical ? all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.

As Far as is Possible or practical. While it is true that we unintentially hurt others to survive,honey does not fit within this viewpoint. You are still taking food meant for their use.

Also your viewpoint is speciesist in that because the bee is non human,and a certain kind of non human you are taking a substance that is important to their development and society and feel justifiedin doing so. You are heading towards veganism, I assume because you feel compassion for other species. You have stopped drinking milk meant for calves, taking honey from bees is no different just because they are not seen as "cute."

The whole beekeeping process interferes with a bees'right to live their lives the way they want,irregardless of what value they have to humans.

Julie:
No, you are not a vegan if you consume any honey at all, because it remains an animal byproduct.

Linda:
Veganism is about animals. The bee is an insect.

Betsy:
Sure. We are also vegans and have been known to eat some occasional honey. I see no problem with doing that, esp since you know where the honey came from, see that the bees were not harmed and see how it is processed. I would worry less about your "title" and just focus on the fact that you cause the least harm to all creatures. But, yes, I do consider you a vegan, as meat, eggs and dairy are huge industries that cause severe animal cruelty. As long as you don't buy and consume those, you are way ahead of the game.

Helen:
I was very confused about Honey when I first became Vegan but I personally do not like Honey the reason I think its wrong is because you are making an Bee make the Honey for you to take off of them. Its like you spending all day making a cake for someone to take it away and eat it themselves I think you have to seriously think about the explotation

Ramona:
The point here is that honey is made by bees for bees, like milk is made by cows for cows. In terms of ethics, harvesting honey is still exploiting another species. If you wish to be vegan (and being vegan is its own reward in so many ways), then you choose to let the bees keep the honey for themselves - as they should.

Sharla:
We in our family (my husband, my two sons, and I) call ourselves vegan although we have always used bee products. I know a lot of vegans who would say the same. In fact, I became a beekeeper this spring. I consider myself a treatment-free beekeeper and am very careful and respectful with my bees. The reasons I became a beekeeper:
*local sweetener (my backyard instead of thousands of miles of travel)
*the bees around the world have been disappearing and we rely on bees to pollinate at least one-third of what we eat
*taking care of them is very educational and interesting for our homeschooling family
*their products have health and medicinal value
*the honey is raw and enzyme-rich so good for a raw diet
*they are a matriarchal society, and as the only female in my household, this is really cool!

Stephanie:
Unless the bees have voiced their opinion on the stealing of their hard-earned honey like that silly Bee Movie, it cannot be considered vegan to exploit them simply because you enjoy the taste of their vomit.

S. DeSantis:
Well, considering the Golden Blossom Honey ads loading onto each page I click on this site, I'd say the site owners are Ok with honey consumption. And, frankly, so am I.

You're a bright teen to take charge of your diet--good for you--now take charge of your cultural perspective as well: look inside yourself, know your intention, understand the ramification (it's clear you do from your honey-gathering experiences) and eat the honey if you so choose.

I believe that cultural labels, especially the ones we like to apply to ourselves like "vegan," are overrated. We like them because they distance us from the mainstream and make us special...or so we believe. You're doing the right thing by living as best and as healthily as you can, and that's more valuable than any label or, really, anyone's opinion, including mine!

[Editor's note: Though we recognize that some vegans do eat honey we do not knowingly accept advertising for honey products. Some of the ads on VegFamily are delivered from an ad network and sometimes an ad may appear contextually that is not acceptable. We must actively find these and have them removed from the ad pool. It is a manual task and we appreciate the assistance when we get reports about them.] Nala:
Technically no,but I do it myself from local,respectfull beekeepers...so...spiritually yes:)

Ivy:
Hmmmm ... not really. Well, it depends. The definition of vegan excludes the use of any animal products, including honey. But maybe you could call yourself a dietary vegan, or just someone who eats a plant-based diet. There is a product called Just Like Honey. You can get it from many vegan online sources. It's made from brown rice syrup and it really does taste just like honey. The thing with veganism is nobody's perfect, nobody's 100% vegan (that would be impossible), but you're not supposed to go out of your way to use animals or their products. By using honey, that's what you're doing. Bees make honey for themselves, not for you. You're stealing their stuff. What does your friend do with the bees after honey season? Also, it's almost impossible to bee-keep without killing some of the bees. It's up to you. You're young, and it's great that you're doing everything vegan but the bees. Hopefully, you'll progress to that level soon enough. Good luck!:-)

Jim:
Absolutely.

Claire:
Basically, no, you would not be considered vegan if you continued to consume honey. That being said, if you see nothing wrong with using that honey, then there's no reason to stop. "Vegan" is a label. If all of your beliefs fit with it, then it's fine to call yourself that. But if there's something you disagree with (the use of this particular honey, for example), there's no reason to try to fit yourself to a label that isn't quite correct for you. While technically strict vegetarian and dietary vegan are the same, this is a case where I personally would consider you a strict vegetarian. There's nothing wrong with that. It's simply different from vegan, that's all.

Holly:
Your reasons and your choices are your own. Anyone who is vegan or non-vegan should not be judging others to decide if they are "qualifying" as a true vegan. Instead, we should be grateful for the conscious thinking and efforts of those that are sparing the lives of these animals. You do what YOU feel is the right choice for you. Especially if your mind and conscience tells you it is alright.

Jenica:
Yes I think absolutely you are a vegan!! I still call myself a vegan and I eat eggs.Organic ones from a local farm. I think people get way to ceught up in what exactly is a vegan. Bee who you want to be!!

HungryHungryVeganos:
You are vegetarian. Vegans do not consume honey. If a cow was treated well does that mean that someone could consume milk and be Vegan? No. how the animals are treated is just one area of Veganism. You can't forget that the honey belongs to the bees and that the bees are being exploited. Just because a slave owner treats their slaves well does not make slavery okay.

Susan:
YOU ARE A CONSCIOUS EATER - LABEL ASIDE

DH:
Why not? Everything in balance, I always say. It seems like a loaded question, considering how much we human beings like to complicate things for ourselves.

Dréa:
When I made the transfer to vegan my housemate would constantly tell me how I was not vegan because I ate honey. He was only vegetarian himself, and it annoying to no end so I gave up honey. I just did not feel there was a problem with the honey, I used one that was a friend of people I knew, made just outside of the region I live. I just did not have a problem with it like I do dairy. If I was you I would call yourself vegan and not really listen to what other people say. Vegan is moral eating, and you are aware of what happens with these bees and you feel that its moral.

Yvette:
Well, by definition I don't think someone is a vegan if they consume honey, because it is an animal product. Same as if someone consumes eggs from hens they raise themselves and are assured that they are treated well, still not vegan.

That said, ethically I do not think it is a huge deal if you eat the honey that your friend gathers. If the bees are not harmed in the process and effort is taken to ensure they are well cared for, I think ethically this is acutually a good thing. I have seen reports that bees in the wild are dwindling, and the only way to keep the species alive is beekeeping. So, on those grounds alone, I say let them eat (ethically gathered) honey!

Rita:
Please read this post by Daniel Engber titled "The Great Vegan Honey Debate" (http://www.slate.com/id/2196205/). I think he does a great job of addressing the issue. The only thing left is for you to look into your heart and decide if these bees are suffering. It seems that the answer is no. So I think it is safe to call yourself a vegan and still eat the honey.

Cacasta:
I have recently made the switch myself from vegetarian to vegan this past year and the only thing I eat that apparently is not vegan is honey. I know there are alternatives such as Agave nector and Maple Syrup that, in my opinion, have the same consistency as honey. I try to use them in cooking, but I still eat organic honey when I want and I still consider myself vegan- and i dont even see the poeple making that honey. I like your statement about hurting more bugs in a day than your friend might do hurting bees in a year (or somethign like that). If it doesnt hurt the bees making the honey, and you know for a fact that your friend isnt hurting them by getting the honey than I dont see the problem.

Maraiya:
I was shocked when I first heard someone say they thought it was wrong to eat honey if you were a vegan. If in the process of collecting the honey the bees are not harmed, or imprisoned, or hurt in any way, then I think it's fine to eat and to harvest honey. One could buy local honey from a place they have seen is safe for bees, a place they've investigated, or from a friend like you are doing. I pray for the bees safety and health off and on, and I know God is working on protecting them from all harm. God intends for the bees to continue to provide humans with honey, and God is working to stop whatever is making bees ill and causing them to stop making honey in certain places.

Tasha:
I know of many "vegans" who use honey. I think that this is an ongoing debate amongst vegans. I think the important thing is to not be too hard on yourself. We live in a very un-vegan world so you have to allow for certan things without severe guilt. If you feel it is ethical then go with that. It is a lifestyle choice but its your life you have to live it the way you feel is right. Enjoy your honey! P.S. -it has alot of iron it, so its good for you too!

Stephy:
Honey will never be considered a vegan item simply because it is taken (regardless of how "humane" or "gentle") from an animal whose intent is NOT to give it to humans. Honey is food for bees. They make it for themselves, not for humans.

Lin:
honey is an animal product and no matter how carefully harvested, bees do die during harvesting...i recommend AGAVE as a honey substitue...my understanding of being vegan is not to have any animal products at all - i think you would be considered vegetarian but not vegan

Michael:
No because honey is an animal by-product. What you can do is switch to agave nectar as it has a similar consistency and is sweet like honey. that is how I make my "honey" mustard

Debbie:
Try Agave Nectar by Madhava. It is delicious!

Heather:
I did the same thing when transitioning into veganism. I wanted to use up my honey, that I had first. So I did. I then tried the agave nectar and haven't needed real bee honey since then. Whatever works for you on the veg journey I think is what works for you. You know the bee keeper, and how he collects it. I think this shows a great caring in you & the bee keeper having you along. I don't see any issue with calling yourself a vegan. Everyone is different, and veganism is different for every single person. Take my husband for example. He's vegan here at the house, with the kids and I. At work it's harder for him to find vegan foods, sometimes he eats vegetarian. All my best, Heather :)

Susan:
I consider myself a vegan and continue to consume honey. My rationale is that bees can leave their hive of their own free will. I've never considered the conditions of honey farms or the processing of honey and potential harm to bees. You've given me something to consider...thanks!

Rebecca:
I heard that in addition to having shorter digestive systems, and different nails, and different teeth, Many Natural Carnivores are out mainly and/or almost exclusivley at nighttime. Natural Herbivores and Humans are out mostly during the daytime. And Carnivores have Night Vision. Does that mean most Carnivores are Night Hunters that Sleep during the day just like both Nature and Mythology intended, and God gifted?

Suzie:
You bring up a good point and from what I read there are vegans and then there are vegans. I respect your choice to eat the honey from your friend's hives. I too have a friend who is a beekeeper and I'm sure she is also quite careful in her care, but I've decided not to purchase or use honey. It is the only item I still have in my pantry for those who want it. I didn't throw it away. There are vegans who feel that buying leather in a consignment store is a form of recycling and that to honor the animal who gave his/her own skin, fur or feathers they will purchase clothing that is NOT vegan. Maybe it's a rationalization. I don't wear silk, leather, wool, etc. I gave all of that away.

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